17 replies to this topic

[Mulder]

Warning. Pictures in this thread may cause alarm and distress. If you are of a nervous disposition, please do not look at this thread.

Do UFOs (Unidentified Flying Object) really exist? There is much debate over this. Some say UFOs are just people imaginations running in overtime, and others would argue with the fact that the govenment keeps UFO records and reports secret becaus ethey don't want the public from panicing. Others will respond yet with they don't want the public to see how many wackos this world has.

Throughout history, people have talked of ‘Aliens’ and ‘UFO’s’ (unidentified flying objects), but do they exist? Etchings have been found on walls in caves of human shapes but with the strange shaped head and eyes. Up till today, those who say they have seen ‘aliens’ all give similar descriptions.

There are hundreds of people all over the world who claim to have seen UFO’s, either in flight or hovering over them. Have these people actually seen them or are they just trying to cause a stir, see their names in the papers perhaps.

Man has built ships to fly billions of miles into the unknown, designed suits and breathing equipment to help protect them whilst out there in the universe, so why not aliens? Why should it be that we humans are the only living creatures, able to fly about exploring other planets? How do we know there have not been ‘aliens’ here on earth long before we came into being?

There are those of us who do not believe there is any thing else living out there in the great unknown, but why? There have been various forms of proof found from long before our time. The etchings for one, resembles many of the descriptions given from said sightings of the public and it has been said that theories claim the Egyptian hieroglyphics have hidden messages regarding the presence of ‘aliens’

There have been many films depicting ‘aliens’ in different forms, colors and skin types, but nothing really matches what have been supposedly seen and photographed. Many believe that the painting called ‘The Baptism of Christ’ depicts a disk shaped object in the sky, thus feeding the minds of those who believe that ’aliens’ do exist. We know there are planets out there in far off galaxies that can support life, so why not alien beings?

In July 1947, near Corona, New Mexico, after a hot and humid afternoon, a huge thunderstorm filled the night sky which was nothing for sheep rancher Mac Brazel. He was used to the sounds of thunder, lightening and wind, but this night he heard a sound that worried him an extremely loud noise like a crash. Thinking no more of it, he retired for the night, sleeping through the rest of the storm.

This was to be the beginning of his story that would continue till this day. The following day, Brazel went off to check his land for any damage only to find strange looking debris in a field. He picked some of the unusual looking materials to his neighbor who urged him to report his find.

After reporting his find to the Roswell N M authorities, he is then questioned by the local radio reporter Frank Joyce who also reports the find to Roswell Army Air Force Base.

On July 8^th, a statement was released to the press confirming the Air Force had in its possession a ‘Flying Disc’. Later the statement was changed and the disk was then changed to a weather balloon. All the debris was removed and taken to Air Force Headquarters in Ft. Worth, Texas, and later changed for weather balloon material.

Back at Roswell, a funeral home was contacted and 4 child sized hermetically sealed coffins were ordered. A nurse was called to assist in an ‘alien autopsy’ and is sworn to secrecy, but this was too much for her and she confided in the mortician and draws him a sketch of what she saw. She is later ‘transferred’ but is never seen again.

The news of the flying disc makes headline news world wide with Brazel regretting the day he found the debris. It is said that a number of people have seen the UFO wreckage and alien bodies. The wreckage and alien bodies are stored at Roswell temporarily before being flown to Wright-Patterson field in Ohio.

The debate regarding do aliens exist or not will continue until there is hardcore evidence to prove their existence. May right now there are beings out there in the universe trying to find life on other planets just like us, but until we prove one way or another, the question still stands….are aliens real or not?

[Tripp]

I don't know to be honest.

Do I believe in UFO's? Whilst anything flying and unknown is automatically a UFO, I believe there are far more logical explinations and conculsions rather than that they are extra-terrestial in origin. I see no reason why aliens will want to visit this planet, as there must be other planets with life on it, closer to them than we are.

Do I believe in Aliens? Yes, yes I do. I believe the universe to be so vast that there HAS to be life out there, somewhere. Take a look at this picture for example.



Each little dot of light on this picture is a CLUSTER of glaxies. Now that's mind blowing. Absolutely mind blowing. It would be ignorant to argue that there cannot possibly life other than what's on this nice planet, out there. Which makes me think futher that alien's wouldn't come to this planet as much times as it's reported. There are logical explinations for everything.

To put shit into perspective. Because this is alot to take in, and we humans can't fathom it.

A light year, is a measurement of distance, not time. Although one light year, is equal to the distance of seeing a light source over a period of distance that is equal to a year. Put it simply, the distance is where I flash a powerful light a place A, the time it takes person in place B to see it, is 1 year.

So that's:

d = c*t
=(2.9979*10^8 m/s)*(3.1557*10^7 s)
=9.4605*10^15 meters
or ~9,500,000,000,000 kilometers
or ~5,900,000,000,000 miles
or ~63,279 au

OUR galaxay alone is:
Diameter 100,000 light years
Thickness 1,000 light years
Contains: 200-400 BILLION stars.

And our galaxay is extremely tiny compared to some of the big boys out there.

The biggest Galaxy we know of today is the IC 1011 galaxy which is a large cD galaxy can be 10 times brighter than the Milky Way, with about 100 times as much mass. They can have a diameter of 6 million light-years across (the Milky Way is about 100,000 light-years across, remember) It's believed that there are over 100 TRILLION stars in that galaxy alone. But that surely cannot be the biggest.

It is estimated that there are as many as 200 billion galaxies in the observable universe.

The current, observable universe has been determined to have a width of 156 billion light years, with an error of less than 1%, by the latest deep-space telescope WMAP. At first, it might seem impossible that scientists are so sure of this astronomical measurement, but this figure has been narrowed by years of research and determined by several paths of inquiry. Also, the size of the universe is intimately dependent on its shape, age, acceleration, and total mass, so we are very confident in this figure.

How big is the actual universe? Who knows. It's not infinate, but to our brains, it MIGHT as well be.

So who's to say there isn't live out there somewhere. The odds are really stacked in the favour that there is.

I am on two minds if Aliens have visited Earth before. It's possible. But I am not going to look at the skys and say that every object I see up there is an Alien spaceship.

[NeppyNepNep]

~Mind... blown.~

But like Si I am not really sure on the subject... Unfortionately, irrational people claim things like 'spots in the sky' as UFOs which can be explained logically or even Scientifically. It's hard to separate the fakes from the reals, if there are any.

[Darth Neko]

I agree with Ero-Neko that in all likelihood, given the extreme size of the universe and the sheer abundance of possible locations in which life could form, its pretty much a certainty that alien life exists somewhere out there.

However, given what is known about physical laws which govern the universe, the possibility of viable interstellar travel ever being developed and thus the possibility of alien life having visiting Earth is in my opinion extremely remote (not impossible, just very, very unlikely).

Reasons for this belief:

1. According to what's known about physics at the moment, nothing in this universe with mass can reach or exceed the speed of light, which is roughly 330,000 kilometers per second (I forget the exact number). The closer an object with mass gets to reaching light-speed, the more energy is needed in order to increase acceleration. To move even 1 gram's worth of matter at the speed of light, requires INFINITE energy. Only objects with zero mass, such as a few elementary particles like photons (light, and other electromagnetic radiation etc.) are able to reach this speed.

This means that interplanetary and interstellar travel must be accomplished at sub-light speeds, below 330,000 kilometers per second. Traveling at light-speed, it would require a minimum of 4.2 years to get from our solar system, Sol, to the next closest known solar system; Alpha Centauri. This is of course without taking into account a lengthy period of acceleration and deceleration which in reality should be needed depending on how fast a given ship can speed up or slow down.

2. There is no known viable or even theoretical technology that can possibly get a ship even close to the speed of light for extended periods. The best possible technology scientists have theorized for use in the distant future is the use of controlled matter / anti-matter annihilation to propel a ship up to approximately 40%-50% the speed of light. This comes with its own set of problems, including finding a viable means of creating and storing such a volatile fuel source. If anti-matter could be created and stored effectively, it could make interstellar travel possible, though travel between solar systems would still take decades or centuries. The problem is, creating even a few positrons or anti-protons of anti-matter is an extremely expensive and difficult process; so much so that anti-matter is actually the most expensive man-made substance to create in existence (cost estimates vary from 25 billion to 100 quadrillion U.S. dollars per gram). Presently the anti-matter created almost immediately reacts with adjacent matter, causing mutual annihilation, converting both the anti-matter and the matter with which it comes into contact into pure energy (mostly gamma radiation). With our current level of technology, to produce even 1 complete gram of anti-matter would take about 100 billion years, and we have no means of storing it and keeping it from self-annihilating.

Assuming anti-matter could somehow be created and stored effectively, it is potentially the most efficient fuel source because in theory, even 1 kilogram of anti-matter and 1 kilogram of ordinary matter reacting with each other would produce an energy output equal to a 43 megaton nuclear explosion. For comparison, the largest nuclear device ever detonated, the Tsar Bomb, reacted an estimated yield of 50 megatons, a device which required use of tens of kilograms of fissile material and tons of other materials in order to function.

3. With our current level of technology, using controlled nuclear explosions to generate thrust, one could at best reach roughly 10%-20% light-speed or so for sustained periods; essentially this is the only existing technology which could be used for interplanetary and possibly interstellar travel. Unfortunately, compared to anti-matter, fuel storage for such an engine design would require enormous resources and such a ship would be absolutely massive.

4. Life-support. Traveling for decades or centuries would either require generational ships where the occupants lived on-board in a self-sufficient manner with a vast supply of food, water and other necessities, or else it would utilize some kind of medical stasis technology. Cryostasis like in movies is improbable, as that actually destroys cell structures. More probable is some kind of nano-technology stasis which invades the body, interrupting normal functions but maintaining the integrity of the body during travel. Such nanotech is presently only theoretical, and may or may not actually be possible.

There are numerous other problems like lack of gravity causing atrophy (possibly counteracted with rotating ship sections), and exposure to stellar radiation (requiring thick and heavy shielding, further increasing ship weight and increasing fuel requirements and other logistical issues).

5. G-Forces. During the acceleration and deceleration periods, the occupants of the ship would be subject to extreme gravity forces. Depending how fast the ship is capable of accelerating, the crew might need to remain immobile in some kind of protective measure for extended periods.

6. Contrary to what you may think, space is not completely empty between planets and stars. There's dust particles all over the place, tiny asteroids, comets etc, flying every which way. Beyond the outer reaches of this solar system and others is usually a field of debris, mostly comprised of comets in eccentric orbits (in Sol's case this is called the Kuiper Belt). Traveling for decades or centuries at high velocity, it is pretty much an absolute certainty that sometime, somehow, your ship is going to at least run into a tiny rock or piece of stellar debris that managed to avoid being pulled into some planet or stars gravity well. When that happens, kiss your ship and ass good-bye, because moving at even a fraction of the speed of light, hitting anything will cause major damage; possibly producing kinetic energy at a nuclear level. In sci-fi, ships use some kind of "Deflector Shield" or other unrealistic technology to counteract this problem. Realistically, a ship would need some kind of point-defense system to destroy incoming matter at extremely high-speed velocities, but the technology required would be staggering.


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In science fiction shows, they often circumvent the speed-of-light limit with some kind of miraculous inter-dimensional or space warping, folding tech. In Star Trek and Frank Herbert's Dune, they warp or fold space-- essentially the ship doesn't move and thus doesn't violate the faster-than-light limitation, instead they simultaneously pull the space in front of the ship forward and push the space behind the ship away. Whilst technically this doesn't break the light-speed barrier, warping space in this fashion would require gravity thousands or hundreds of thousands of times greater than can be produced by any star or black hole. Essentially, it's pure fiction. There is no known or even theoretical method of producing anything remotely close to this kind of warping affect.

Other sci-fi's make use of an alternate spatial dimensions of realty, such as those present in string theory and M-theory; like in Star Wars and Stargate there is Hyperspace. "Somehow" ships in these fictional universes use some kind of engine or drive technology to make the transition into that other dimension which operates on different physical laws and the light-speed barrier doesn't exist or there is some other convenient explanation for why it allows ships to reach distant locations relatively quickly. In all likelihood, this is pure fiction as well. Matter existing in the three basic spatial dimensions; length, width, depth, would not be able to exist in such alternate dimensions of space, where only the fundamental forces of nature which cannot physically be perceived except by witnessing their affects exist, like gravity, strong force, electromagnetism, weak force etc. Even if you could somehow enter one of these dimensions, you and your ship would likely be annihilated or reduced to the most fundamental building blocks of nature.

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Essentially, the prospect that aliens are visiting Earth in relatively small disc-like ships or flying saucers, etc. I find somewhat ludicrous-- though not completely impossible; there may be some area of physics or other scientific loop-hole that present human understanding of the universe doesn't cover, but I still think it's very, very, improbable. Such small ships, utilizing apparently some kind of reaction-less drive (without visible engine thrusters etc), zipping through the air in defiance of gravity would require super-science so far beyond the level of human comprehension it might as well be magic; I would find it easier to believe if someone told me they genetically engineered flying pigs last Tuesday.

[NeppyNepNep]

I learnt a thing or two from this xD +1 Rep from me.

But you raise very valid points, which I agree on. The chances of aliens visiting us are extremely slim... So slim I can't even imagine how small the number would be... In fact most of the time I think 'alien' autopsies and 'Roswell' are nothing but a hoax. Despite that, though, I do believe that there is other life out there, even intelligent ones like us. I mean, we would have to be pretty stupid, and ignorant, to think that we are the only ones out there. I mean, there are several species on Earth that can be considered Intelligent... as Intelligent as we would consider out children, but Intelligent nonetheless... in fact many species show self awareness as we do. They do not have the same thoughts, complex emotions, imagination and ideas as us, but they're still self aware.

What are your opinion on Wormholes, like what they Stargate uses? I know Scientists want to look into that as a means for space travel, however I can see the huge problems of requiring the energy to create one not to mention making sure that it got you to the destination and also make sure that it doesn't collapse on you! I think that would end very badly, hmm...

Also, to add to your point about space being filled with dust, particles and larger moving objects that could rip your hull apart... Unless the ship was built in space [Which I can imagine would be a very hard feat to manage], you would have to pass through the junk zone in our own orbit that's filled with crap, crap and more crap which we have just thrown out there. It hasn't caused any serious damage... yet, however if we ever get to the point of being able to do decent space travel and we haven't bothered cleaning it up, I can see it ripping a new ship to shreds.

[Darth Neko]

I forgot about wormholes; yes they're one of the other theoretically sound means that one could pass the faster-than-light barrier, however the trouble with making the bastards is incredibly immense.

To create a worm hole you need a "white hole", a theoretical and possibly non-existent spatial phenomena. It is a hypothetical region of space-time which cannot be entered from the outside, but from which matter and light may escape. In this sense it is the reverse of a black hole, which can be entered from the outside, but from which nothing, including light, may escape. (It is theoretically possible for a traveler to enter a rotating black hole, avoid the singularity, and use the black hole to travel into a rotating white hole.)

White holes however, cannot be formed through any known physical process.

A wormhole, assuming you could create one by placing a white hole within a maximally extended black hole, would be inherently unstable; the connection with its twin wormhole in a distant space-time location would be constantly entering a state of opening and collapse.

Also, in a basic black hole / white hole wormhole (called a schwarzschild wormhole) it is impossible for a traveller to pass through from one area of the universe into another. A traveller can pass through a horizon only in one direction and into the center of the wormhole by waiting until the two white holes have merged, and their horizons met. The traveller may then enter through one horizon, but having entered the traveller cannot exit, either through the first horizon or through the horizon on the other side. Once the two white holes merge, exit through either horizon is impossible. The fate of the traveller who ventures in is to die at the singularity which forms during the collapse of the wormhole.

In principle, a wormhole could be stabilized and made traversable by threading its throat with a kind of `exotic matter' (Hypothetical particles which have "exotic" physical properties that would violate known laws of physics, such as a particle having a negative mass). In a stable wormhole, the exotic matter forms a thin spherical shell around the white hole.

In the case of a traversable wormhole, the shell of exotic matter needs a negative mass and positive surface pressure. The negative mass ensures that the throat of the wormhole lies outside the horizon, so that travellers can pass through it, while the positive surface pressure prevents the wormhole from collapsing.

While the notion of negative mass is certainly bizarre, the vacuum fluctuations near a black hole are exotic, so perhaps exotic matter is not utterly impossible.

God only knows how one would go about creating such a strange form of particle though.

Also, I forgot to mention the difficulty involved in just creating the black hole needed for making a wormhole. Whilst scientists are presently fairly certain of the existence of black holes, and the means by which they are born, creating one artificially would require superscience bordering on magic.

To create a single black hole, you would need to take an extremely large mass (in the planet + scale) and compress it into a very small area. For example, if you took the Earth and squeezed it into a diameter of 6 cm, it would then become a black hole.

To create a black hole viable for a traversable wormhole, you would need to collapse a small star or perhaps one up to the size of our own sun (which would produce a black hole about 3 km in diameter). If you took all the gas giants in our solar system and squeezed them down into a black hole, it probably wouldn't be bigger than a few meters.

A black hole produces as much gravity as the mass that went into its creation. For example, if you squeezed Earth down into a black hole, at a distance of 6378 km (the distance of the Earth's surface from its center) you would still only experience a gravity pull of 1 G, or 11 m/s. However, as you get closer the gravity pull would increase until upon reaching the event horizon the pull would exceed the speed of light and escape is no longer possible. How in creation could you move such objects into locations for ease of access, when their gravity is equal to planets or stars and would disrupt the orbits of the objects around it? A wormhole capable of allowing a ship to traverse through it would have to have the mass and gravity of a star, and would knock any nearby planets out of their normal orbits.

Essentially, making a wormhole inside any inhabited solar system, even assuming one could, is a very bad idea.

Edited by -Kitsune:Sama-, 16 March 2011 - 03:32 hrs.
Merged posts due to double posting. No warning issued due to first offence.

[Anthro Slut]

Darth Neko, on 16 March 2011 - 00:33 hrs, said:

I forgot about wormholes; yes they're one of the other theoretically sound means that one could pass the faster-than-light barrier, however the trouble with making the bastards is incredibly immense.

To create a worm hole you need a "white hole".... This is where I stopped reading... The idea you can create a wormhole is LAUGHABLE at best. Whiteholes are ONLY theoretical, where as Wormholes DO exist. Not only that but you'd need a BUTTHURT of energy.

Your information is about 20 years out of date.

Travling through a wormhole, doesn't make you go faster than the speed of light. I believe travling faster than the speed of light is impossible. Hence if you actually built a machine capable of doing such a task, you'd only be going 99.9¹⁰% the speed of light, before time for you slows down (Which gives the time travel effect). Let me start by explaining something else first.

If you were to build a craft that can ORBIT a blackhole, like the ISS orbits Earth, and you did so for 16 days, orbiting a black hole (Which isn't literally a 2D hole) by the time you sling shot out, because of using the gravity as a momentum boost, you'd get faster and faster, and the fact that too much gravity distors time anway, (but lets assume for a moment that it doesn't) when you went back to Earth, you'll find that you've been orbiting that blackhole for say a few months (I believe Stephen Hawking said) It's a trick the laws of phyics play when you start approching the speed of light. You actually feel like it's taking only minutes when it's taking days. (This has ALREADY been proven. With two clocks. One in space. One on earth. They go out of sync. Where as before they were in perfect sync).

Now that explains why you can never travel at the speed of light. Because as you hit that threshold, someone looking down at you, seeing you fly, it's take you weeks from that person's perspective, to watch you get from A - B. Where as from yours, it takes minutes.

A Wormhole, is something with so much energy behind it, that it allows you to travel at NORMAL speed to another point in the universe. Take a piece of paper, and put two pin prick holes in it at one end of the paper, and one at the other end of the paper. Then draw a line to it. That line will be a long line. However. Who said space was 2D? I didn't. So go ahead and bend that piece of paper there, in half, so the holes meet up. Ant walks in one hole, appears out the other hole. A shortcut, if you will.

A white hole, in general relativity, is a hypothetical region of spacetime which cannot be entered from the outside, but from which matter and light may escape. In this sense it is the reverse of a black hole. I don't believe to this date there is ANY proof that white holes exist.

A black hole is a region of space from which nothing, not even light, can escape. The theory of general relativity predicts that a very compact mass will deform spacetime to form a black hole. Around a black hole there is an undetectable surface called an event horizon that marks the point of no return. It is called "black" because it absorbs all the light that hits the horizon. Although it has been known that if a blackhole is consuming MUCH more than its supposed to. It will eject violent rays of Gamma Radiation. Nasty mofo's they are. One of them hits Earth, dead on, fuck the planet's magnetic poles which protects us from a lot of radation as it is. It'll wipe that out.

You cannot pop into a blackhole, and then appear out of a white hole. That's impossible. If you went into a black hole the gravitational forces would not only rip you apart, but it'd do it very slowly. Time Dilation. (As seen in Stargate SG1). Let's say I set up a camera, and there are people that are on a planet that a blackhole is right close to. To them, they'd be dead, or dying. But to you, they'd still be on the planet. Frozen. As if the camera was only taking pictures. Blackholes won't just kill you. They'll be as long as they want about it. Please download this episode of Stargate and watch it to see what I am talking about. Because they're correct, which isn't normal for a show to be correct on something. But they used real scientists as advisors for the show, so they were correct with this.Stargate S02E16 - A Matter of Time.

I was reading on facebook last year, some moron, told a friend of mine that a wormhole and blackholes are the same thing... No they are not. AND blackholes are NOT evil versions of Wormholes. >.> Fuck.

Edited by Ero-Wolfie, 20 March 2011 - 16:31 hrs.

[NeppyNepNep]

Yeah, Neko is right... Wormholes and Blackholes/white holes, are completely different... I don't think anyones even found a white hole, so even the theory of linking a black hole and a white hole has so many holes it's not even funny. I think wormholes might be our best bet for getting to placed quickly, however there is the issue of keeping it stable enough to travel through... And there is nothing to say that another intelligent race on another planet that hasn't perfected that kind of technology? Like the Stargate's? I think that might the most logical way to make sure that the where you emerge is where you were aiming for... by having something for the wormhole to lock onto... might make it even more stable...

Ever seen the Behind the Science with Stargate? It's crappy quality, but this is the first part:



They actually explain the science that they, which is not made up crap.

[Darth Neko]

Quote

Traveling through a wormhole, doesn't make you go faster than the speed of light. I believe traveling faster than the speed of light is impossible. Hence if you actually built a machine capable of doing such a task, you'd only be going 99.9¹⁰% the speed of light, before time for you slows down.

I wasn't implying that traveling in a wormhole makes you travel faster-than-light in a conventional sense (which would be impossible, I am aware), but that it is a cheat to travel large distances by not having to surpass the faster-than-light barrier; accomplished by traveling directly between two wormholes in distant locations like you explained... and I already mentioned the light-speed limitation as well as several issues in trying to attain such a speed in my first post within this thread. I also know about the change in relative experience of time as you approach the speed of light. You seem to have misunderstood what I have written in regards to wormholes though, or ignored it simply because it mentioned "white hole" without understanding the mechanics involved in the theory of a traversable schwarzchild wormhole.

Most of the theories regarding wormholes involve the presence of a black hole because in order to bend or fold space between two points as would be required in wormhole theories, you would need the presence of a gravitational singularity (a region where gravity is infinite); which are known only to exist beneath the event horizons of black holes. There may be some phenomena that might possibly duplicate this effect, but to my knowledge none is known to exist or even theorized to be possible.

Quote

To create a worm hole you need a "white hole".... This is where I stopped reading... The idea you can create a wormhole is LAUGHABLE at best. Whiteholes are ONLY theoretical, where as Wormholes DO exist. Not only that but you'd need a BUTTHURT of energy.

The whole wormhole concept (whether occurring naturally or artificially) is still just as hypothetical as "white holes" and "exotic matter"; according to the math they could exist, but there is presently no physical or experimental evidence confirming that they do exist. Officially anyway (who knows, there might be some big international conspiracy going on ). Also, a wormhole can't just form and fold space simply dumping an absurd amount of energy into a spot, such a phenomena would still need to be a physical presence made of some kind of matter or particles (either naturally occurring or theoretical with exotic properties) in order to exist. The theory of a traversable schwarzchild wormhole needs a singularity such as that of a black hole and the properties of the hypothetical white hole in order to function as scientists theorize it might. This would make entering and exiting such a phenomena difficult, due to radiation and having to overcome the gravity shear of being in close proximity to the black hole event horizon, but passing through a traversable schwarzchild wormhole wouldn't require passing through the actual event horizon of the black hole itself, but instead that of the white hole (normally impossible to enter at all; however, theoretically a rotating white hole conjoined to a maximally-extended rotating exterior black hole with zero mass is possible to enter. Such a black hole, rather than the typical sphere shape would actually be ring shaped and thus could envelop a white hole).

The presence of such a black hole and white hole is required at each opposing side for a traversable schwarzchild wormhole; It is the interaction between a black hole and a white hole together which makes normally impossible entry into a white hole possible, and which would also produce the space-folding effect needed to create the connection between two wormholes and the distant points of space.

This is only one version of wormhole theory, but it is the only one which I've found in which the wormhole conceivably permits travel for a whole object and not just a stream of particles (which I think is what they imply happens in Stargate series, with the gate reassembling travelers once they reach their destination). Most of the other theories have issues with matter being trapped in the singularity required to fold space or else during an inevitable collapse. For a traversable wormhole to exist, theoretical and possibly non-existent or impossible phenomena are required in all instances; a white hole, and exotic matter with negative mass (needed to stabilize the wormhole and prevent collapse and being trapped in the singularity) are just two examples of such substances for this particular wormhole theory. If one or both of these theoretical objects cannot exist, then neither can such a traversable schwarzchild wormhole.

You're right that this schwarzchild wormhole theory is a little old (from around the late 80's I think), but nothing I've found so far has disproved the theory outright despite that fact (there are issues that a white hole might be breaking the second law of thermodynamics , and the kind of ring-shaped black hole required for such a wormhole-- a rotating maximally extended exterior black hole-- would need to have zero mass. Such a black hole cannot form naturally through any known means, though the math doesn't preclude the possibility of them existing). There may be other viable theories or newer ones about traversable wormholes of other types that I am unaware of and have missed. However, implying that wormholes of any kind have been proven to exist already is a mistake I think; to my knowledge no-one has yet to prove they actually exist and have provided evidence supporting that fact, it's still all theory.

Edited by Darth Neko, 21 March 2011 - 04:14 hrs.

[JamesIspwnage]

I've got it..... It's Halo. All the stuff from Halo is real. Oh and the film Paul. That was a good one.

[NeppyNepNep]

Right... Okay....

Back to the serious discussion...

While Scientists have proved that Blackholes exist, White holes are only a theory, and they have yet to try and prove it... At any case, I highly doubt if a white hole existed, you could pop into a blackhole and pop out a white hole and still live to tell the tale. The blackhole would crush you, and not to mention by the time you come out the other side, something like 100 years would have passed you by when it only felt like ten minutes to you. So even if it is possible, it's not practical because the gravity would crush you, and you would be travelling in time, in a sense. The wormhole that we are talking about, is folding space so that the two points are touching before poking across from one side to the other. Granted, it would take massive amounts of energy, but then again so would trying to save yourself from getting crushed alive in a blackhole. A shield might do the trick, but I doubt even anti-matter, if we find a way to create it and store it, would provide enough energy. I remember on one of Stephen Hawking's documentaries about the Universe, he was talking about various ways to travel as well as protecting the ship from space junk that would rip the ship apart, but I couldn't remember any specifics.

[Tripp]

I found this thread again. Yay. I'm not even going to bother replying to Darth Neko's theory. You do NOT need a "White hole" there is no such thing (at least that I am aware of) that exists. A wormhole is generally speaking small. So small and tiny they're almost microscopic. You need Energy, and Technology to rip or stretch the wormhole open, so you can safely go in and out of it. Blackholes aren't theoretical. They're proven to exist, and such as which I believe wormholes have too. There is no such thing as a white hole. Sorry to dissapoint. Anthro Slut is correct sadly. There is no such thing as a White Hole and your information is approximately 20 years way out of date.

I can show you some episodes of Steven Hawkings Universe. I advise you watch, because it's really inciteful and very much so up to date (At the moment) and it's actually a really good show, esp in HD quality. Absolutely mind blowing.

JamesIspwnage, on 02 April 2011 - 08:31 hrs, said:

I've got it..... It's Halo. All the stuff from Halo is real. Oh and the film Paul. That was a good one.

Completely off topic... But Paul was a fantastic movie, and I enjoyed it, actually. Even I thought they were gay (Not that there's anything wrong with that) </OffTopic>

[Tap]

I'm heavily into the paranormal and the occult and the like. I believe that there is most likely life in other solar systems out there (and on a side note, I'm also a believer in alternate realities - the scientific theory being the many-worlds-interpretation.)

[PsychoticMuse]

I am no where near anything good with science, so don't expect long massivly informative articles like some of you guys have written x.x

I have learned alot in this thread sofar by just skimming over what has been posted. It's awesome that you guys know so much. I had never even herd of the white hole theory, never mind the whole calculations you people managed to pull out of your brains >.< *jelous*

At anyrate, I Do have something interesting in my opinion that i would like to share over Aliens, or rather the 'sightings' of UFO's (and by accounts) Alien's IN MY NEIGHBOUR HOOD in the last two-three weeks.

'The sighting occurred Saturday, July 16 at about 9 p.m. The lights were noticed by three girls — Christina <Censored>, 9, and Molly <Censored> and Emily <Censored>, both 11 — playing on <Censored> Avenue, a small dead-end street off Blake Street near <Censored> "We were riding our bikes around the street and, like, doing nothing,” recalled Molly, who is going into Grade 5. One of her friends suddenly pointed into the sky at something above Reynolds’ house.

“I figured it was nothing, but she said it looks like a spaceship,” said Molly. “I thought she was crazy or something, but then it came really close … It was, like, red, but it had yellow lights all over it. It made no noise at all. It was completely quiet. It was, like, hovering. They counted three objects and ran to get Simon Reynolds, 42; who filmed the objects on his iPhone and in that footage, he and the girls can be heard expressing their amazement. Reynolds can also be heard hollering to the neighbourhood: “UFO! UFO! UFO!” He estimates the objects — which he described as “red fireballs” — were a few hundred feet in the air and travelling north across the sky.

"This was a total shock … I don’t know what they were. I know there is nothing I’ve seen on earth that can explain what they were.”-Simon Reynolds; an actor who has appeared in productions during a 30-year career as varied as Flash of Genius and Saw IV to Traders, Street Legal and Flashpoint. “There’s no way these were planes or anything mechanical, unless there’s completely silent helicopters,” He says . “It was like a red-orange … The whole casing of the ship was the light … This wasn’t a projection in the sky. This was an actual solid thing. They were like suns.”

They are not alone in seeing the objects. Bob Schofield, 70, was at a dinner party on St. Clair Boulevard the same evening, and at about the same time, when he and his friends saw three “yellowy-orange” lights in the sky.

The following Saturday, July 23, at about 9:30 p.m. Scott Watson, 35, estimates he was one of about 30 people at a back yard barbecue who saw four “glowing orange” lights moving across the sky above Cochrane Road. “Everybody was abuzz,” said Watson, a government worker. “All four of them didn’t make a peep. It was the craziest thing we’d ever seen.”

“I don’t believe in UFOs or any of that, but I am puzzled,” said Schofield. “I don’t have any explanation on what it was.”

The authorities don’t have any ideas, either. Jonathan Bagg of NavCanada, which operates the control tower at the John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport, says it was a regular Saturday night for air traffic over the region. “There were no reports of anything unusual,” said Bagg.

Scott Watson also videos the sighting, and posted it on YouTube. Here is the video..... (Doesn't remember how to embed the videos on to the site at 0403 am. >.<)

So what do you all think? I THINK that these people are idiots for running in to the street, have they never seen war of the worlds? or any 'invasion' movie? xD Now seriously; I don't know what to think- At first i thought flares? Candle hot air balloons on strings? Even the vidoe is pretty stetchy; but hey, it's a buzz around right now, so why not post it in the UFO's section?

[Raxistaicho]

This is some craaaazy discussion XD Had a hard time following

My view is that aliens definitely exist (We can't be the only intelligent life in a universe so vast) and they might have visited us in the past, but the mainstray of "sightings" in modern times is just people either with too much imagination or misleading others.

And frankly, be a little nervous if Aliens ever do visit ^^U we could be in trouble if they aren't friendly.

[Kitsune Girl]

censored avenue, sounds like my kinda street lol

and I think it's possible that if aliens had to over come the obstacle of their own races on their own planets, but I suppose its equally as possible they could of wiped out others on their planet and be left with one country under the whole world, or one governement at least. but still isn't is assumable that they'd have to work together in peace and friendship to get to the technology required to go into space?

I'm not saying that all aliens are likely to be bad, but there is more chance of them being friendly than enemy. I think it's pure scifi-tv-brainwashing-fear-mongering-ignorance to assume that every alien will be a bad guy. (not saying anyone in this thread are ignorant!!!)

[Edward Elric]

I think they exist. How can there be life on only one planet when there is billions of stars in this galaxy and billions of galaxies in the universe and my dad told me he saw a ufo once.

[PsychoticMuse]

Kitsune Girl, on 31 August 2011 - 05:26 hrs, said:

censored avenue, sounds like my kinda street lol

and I think it's possible that if aliens had to over come the obstacle of their own races on their own planets, but I suppose its equally as possible they could of wiped out others on their planet and be left with one country under the whole world, or one governement at least. but still isn't is assumable that they'd have to work together in peace and friendship to get to the technology required to go into space?

I'm not saying that all aliens are likely to be bad, but there is more chance of them being friendly than enemy. I think it's pure scifi-tv-brainwashing-fear-mongering-ignorance to assume that every alien will be a bad guy. (not saying anyone in this thread are ignorant!!!)

I was watching a show on this subject the other night when i was computer and internet lacking. I believe it was stephen hawking's universe Alien edition.

It was very insiteful, and it held a pretty non biased opinion on the matter, so even the smartest man in the world agrees with the idea that it would be pretty ignorant for people to believe that we are the only life in the universe. I would strongly suggest it to everyone, even the die hard skeptic,