11 replies to this topic

[Tripp]

This is a debate about the recent UK headlines: SCHOOLS TOLD TO BRING BACK CANING

I posted something in the blog that I feel must be debated on. I'd like this to be a clean debate (No swearing at people, insulting, demeaning, etc... Swearing indirectly - Go for it, it's a free country. I THINK!)

Please be respectful too. Thanks!

Quote: "If we are ever to turn toward a kindlier society and a safer world, a revulsion against the physical punishment of children would be a good place to start." - Dr. Benjamin Spock

Wolfie, on 16 September 2011 - 12:05 hrs, said:

All teachers and staff at educational establishments, including nurseries, are prohibited from using physical punishment on children.

In state-run schools, and also in private schools where at least part of the funding came from government, corporal punishment was outlawed by Parliament with effect from 1987. In other private schools it was banned in 1999 (England and Wales), 2000 (Scotland) and 2003 (Northern Ireland).

The implement used in many state and private schools in England and Wales was a flexible rattan cane, applied either to the student's hands or (especially in the case of teenage boys) to the seat of the trousers. Slippering was widely used as a less formal alternative. In a few English cities, a strap was used instead of the cane.

In Scotland a leather strap, the tawse, administered to the palms of the hands, was universal in state schools, but some private schools used the cane.

Apparently "49%" of parents want it brought back. I'm sorry but if my child (When I have children) comes home and tells me that their teacher hit them with a cane at school REGARDLESS to what they have or haven't done. That will be the last thing that teacher ever does. For this I sware. If a teacher hit me in school that'd be the last thing they ever did too.

They're arguing that since the abolishment of Corporal Punishment, the number of disruptive students has shot up. Now excuse me here for one moment, but that's ignorant. Saying that is JUST the same as saying since the (Sorry for racial terms here) Blacks were given equal rights, crime has shot up. Or since Sexism was made soically unacceptable, population shot up. All three are INVALID and moronic statements made by ignorant people. I could say since putting on my underpants on my head the sky is blue. The sky has always been blue. Putting my pants on my head or taking them off isn't going to change anything.

If anyone thinks that caning is an option for an aggressive 14 - 16 year old thug disrupting a class, then they're living on another planet. Let's see, first we can be fairly sure the pupil in question won't submit voluntarily or passively. So the first requirement would be for two or three strong and suitably trained "teachers" to restrain him, whilst another actually administers the corporal punishment.

After the caning they'll then have to let go of him or her. If they do, all I can say is good luck, because they'll need it as he or she retaliates.

Finally if the teachers do manage to escape unscathed from the punishment detail then at some stage they will have to leave the school to go home at the end of the day. At some point in their journey they may expect an out of school encounter with a vindictive pupil and the rest of his gang, many of them armed, laying in wait for the teacher who "dissed him" (disrespected him).

So police protection for the teachers involved would be a must, as would special arrangements for emergency medical treatment, maybe a mobile resuscitation unit. In reality of course none of the really disruptive kids boys or girls would receive any corporal punishment. Only those willing to submit docilely to punishment or too young to put up a fight against being caned, slippered or slapped would be hit and they're not the problem. What a really stupid idea.

If mature adults don't have the wit to control a child without resorting to violence, they have no business being in charge of children. Unfortunately, no licence, examination of test is necessary for prospective parents.

If my child misbehaves at school myself and my wife-to-be will deal with the discipline OUR way. We will not have a place that supposedly is there to EDUCATE our kids, punish them with Corporal Punishment. Anyone who hits a child is a weak, cowardly Neanderthal, in my fucking opinion. If Corporal Punishment is brought back, my children will be home schooled.

When an adult breaks the laws of society, do we bend them over our knees and cane them? No. They go to prison. They have rights taken off of them. They have freedoms restricted. Why can't the same apply for schools? (Okay not prison) OH! Because students have no freedoms. They're like the (excuse the racial/sexist terms here) black women of the 16th Century! OH silly me. If students had more freedom in the first place or a reward system for good behaviour, and various other things were reviewed and sorted out (Its not an over night fix) then you can build a stable and MORAL punishment/discipline system.

The Emo One, on 16 September 2011 - 13:33 hrs, said:

Hopefully, no one would mind me expanding on what Wolfie has already said.

One of reasons for having the option to cane students is that the supposed relationship between corporal punishment and the number of students misbehaving, where the existence and number of instances of punishment causally affects the number of students misbehaving. Now, this by itself is not a logical argument. It comits the logical fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc, or 'after this, then this follows'.

Here is the form of the proposition:

A happens, then B occurs
Therefore A causes B

This is a fallacy because:

1. Just because B occurs after A does not mean A causes B. Temporality may imply causality but not necessarily so. For example, one could say that the decrease in the amount of sea pirates contributes to global warming or that when I drop a book during a thunderstorm, lightning comes down. Even if it is the case that A happened then B, it does not mean it causes B.

2. Other factors may be of more relevance then Event A. For example, with the book example, one has not considered the role of charged particles or ice or other factors.


Of course, people advocating corporal punishment don't argue this simply. They have a more complex argument. I shall give an example of one here:

Using corporal punishment on students misbehaving works because it instill fear into them and serves as a deterrent for future bad behaviour.
It acts as a deterrent because it imposes a cost on the student (in this case, pain).
Students are rational and wish to minimise pain and maximise pleasure.
Students will misbehave because they don't respect authority.
Punishment is not pleasurable and should be avoided.
This deterrent will make the student obey out of fear or rational calculation.
Therefore, we should have corporal punishment.

Now, this does sound reasonable, doesn't it? Of course, I read Wolfie as not agreeing to this sort of argument on a few grounds.

1. Corporal punishment is not a deterrent as, while it may instill fear, it also instill hate and resentment.
2. Hate and resentment will lead to further misbehaving and violence.
3. Students misbehaviour for many reasons, other than no respect for authority or that they can get away with it.
4. Corporal punishment is, by its nature, demeaning and humiliating.

Now, as for me, I don't think the argument that the abolishment of corporal punishment necessarily lead to increases in misbehaving student is correct. There are just too many other factors that could affect the numbers to suggest significant causal power to it. For one, it could just be the case that the numbers of students overall has increases over the years and that increased numbers lead to more conflict.

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Debate: Corporal Punishment

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Thank you for your lengthy reply, I am happy you took time out just to post this, as it is insightful and I agree with most, if not all of it. Maybe this is one for Debates forum? I've opened this debate up to see what other people think. Should be an interesting debate.

The Emo One, on 16 September 2011 - 13:33 hrs, said:

Of course, people advocating corporal punishment don't argue this simply. They have a more complex argument. I shall give an example of one here:

Using corporal punishment on students misbehaving works because it instill fear into them and serves as a deterrent for future bad behaviour.
It acts as a deterrent because it imposes a cost on the student (in this case, pain).
Students are rational and wish to minimise pain and maximise pleasure.
Students will misbehave because they don't respect authority.
Punishment is not pleasurable and should be avoided.
This deterrent will make the student obey out of fear or rational calculation.
Therefore, we should have corporal punishment.

Yes dictators use fear too. Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussain are two examples. Didn't we go to war against that kind of behaviour? Several times?

If "Authority" has to resort to physical violence just to get their point across, that does not teach respect authority. It teaches "Fear Authority"

Also I know someone that if hit by a cane would probably respond by moaning, really loudly. (Takes sexual pleasure from any kind of pain) Would this not be then classed as sexual abuse?

The Emo One, on 16 September 2011 - 13:33 hrs, said:

Now, this does sound reasonable, doesn't it? Of course, I read Wolfie as not agreeing to this sort of argument on a few grounds.

1. Corporal punishment is not a deterrent as, while it may instill fear, it also instill hate and resentment.
2. Hate and resentment will lead to further misbehaving and violence.
3. Students misbehaviour for many reasons, other than no respect for authority or that they can get away with it.
4. Corporal punishment is, by its nature, demeaning and humiliating.

• And mental scarring as well as a fair few other things I can mention.
  
• Agreed. Aka Rebellion.
  
• That and to get respect amongst class mates, to be popular.
  
• Agreed. As well as mentally scarring and dangerous.

August 2nd 2007, A student severely caned by his teacher died from complications from internal injuries. And <sarcasm> surprise surprise </sarcasm> it's not an isolated incident.

June 11th 2010, a student in India commits suicide because of the humiliation [Source: http://blogs.reuters...al-punishment/]

And these two cases aren't the only ones. On the internet alone I found hundreds different news reports linking Corporal Punishment and death.

Okay, one could argue that just because people die doesn't mean it's corporal punishments fault. You're doing exactly what you were telling other people off for earlier.

But these are ACTUALLY linked.
[Sources:

• http://www.google.co...nishment Deaths
  
• http://www.google.co...ishment" "died"

]

Here are some examples of typical punishments from the Old Town School in San Diego, California (USA) dating back to the 1850s:

• Swearing at school - eight lashes.
  
• Misbehaving to girls - ten lashes.
  
• Playing cards at school - ten lashes.
  
• Girls going to boy s' play places - three lashes.
  
• Boys and girls playing together - four lashes.
  
• Telling lies - seven lashes.

Yeah. Not just one lashing, but upto 10 lashings for well... Breathing!

Now back to the debate in the news for the UK today. They asked 2000 parents, about this. To which 49% said yes! Who did they ask? Child killers? Murderers? Did they just walk into the local prison ask who were parents and then ask that stupid question?

I could go to a "People who love Star Trek convention" ask 2000 people who likes Star Trek and if I get 100% say yes, I can't just go right on ahead there and say 99.99% of the UK likes Star Trek.

IT'S WRONG.

Corporal Punishment perpetuates the Cycle of Abuse. (Google it if you don't know what Cycle of Abuse means).

Corporal punishment of children breaches their fundamental human rights to respect for human dignity and physical integrity. Its legality in almost every state worldwide - in contrast to other forms of inter-personal violence - challenges the universal right to equal protection under the law. The Convention on the Rights of the Child and its Treaty Body — the Committee on the Rights of the Child. Article 19 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child requires States to protect children from "all forms of physical or mental violence" while in the care of parents or others. The Committee on the Rights of the Child has consistently interpreted the Convention as requiring States to protect children from all corporal punishment and has recommended that prohibition should be accompanied by public education to promote positive discipline.

They say that schools are full of children who mis-behave. No they aren't. Not all of them. Besides, I'd have a look at the parenting of the misbehaving students. Maybe everything isn't okay at home. >_>

[Manni]

I've got a question: Can anyone find the original poll question and responses that the survey used? Apparently it was commissioned by the Times Educational Supplement in 2008...assuming that I have the right survey. They did an earlier on UK teacher's opinions on caning.

Edited by The Emo One, 16 September 2011 - 19:34 hrs.

[Tripp]

Sorry for the delay. I couldn't find it. There was a teacher on another site I looked at that said "What angers me is how Ofsted in particular frequently put poor behaviour down to poor planning/lessons not being exciting/entertaining enough when more often that not the reverse is true. We can plan interesting lessons till the cows come home - but it's impossible to deliver these lessons to classes who won't listen and give us a chance to teach them." (Bold letters is where I corrected the spelling of this English Teacher... Yeah... That's right.)

My reply was before it got deleted and me banned, was simply; Maybe your definition of exciting isn't very exciting at all. So just because you can't bring the class around in a disciplined manner, (Your short comings) you want to take the worst short-cut imaginable? Violence? I think there was a man who once lived in Germany who thought he could control his people through fear and violence, I believe we went to war with that country too. And the Iraq w- Oh bad example. I forgot American's went to war with Iraq for Oil. My bad. But the German guy thing stands. It's fascism, not discipline. Any fucking episode of Jo Frost's Supernanny or Nanny 911 will tell you that physical discipline is the worst way to control people. Yeah back in the day it might of worked. But TODAY it wouldn't. Today if you cane a child you're more likely to get a retaliation or a school riot on your hands. Just because it worked back then definitely doesn't mean it will work today.

For example. If you were to shout "Oi! Ni**er. Pick that fucking cotton!" You're definitely not going to get a good reaction today. Women not being paid as much for the same jobs as men. Again back then it might of been the normal. But today it isn't. Smoking used to be the in thing. Now it's "the number one health risk" No... Stupid ideas like bringing this violent technique to discipline will be the number one health risk.

P.s. I am sorry for any offence caused, and I fully agree with Equal Rights. But Equal rights HAS to mean equal rights. If adults treated children more like equals (In non-sexual sense thank you) taught responsibilities, respect, etc... It'd go a LONG way towards a better society.

[Raxistaicho]

I agree. Physical force as a deterrent doesn't work; it just leads to more in the future. My dad and grandma are proof of this truth.

[Manni]

Hmm...that quote that Wolfie had fun with ripping apart suggests to me that we don't ask the question of why some students do what they do. I have not been in the public school system in Australia so I cannot comment on what happens there. I think my experience in what happens in schools is a bit class biased as only those who could afford the rather exorbinant fees could get in...unless on scholarship. Anyway, even in these schools where middle or upper class 'values' (whose content is variable) are inculcated, there are students that screw around. What I never found out was why some students did it. I mean, my school has used forms of 'collective punishment' for when a small group of students decide to go against the rules. By collective punishment, I don't mean they go around smacking all of us. They used non physical methods...though I they did have corporal punishment in some of the privates I've been in.

What the teachers, in my experience, never did or even the students was ask those misbehaving why they did it. We could have gotten interesting responses. The usual assumption is that they just to misbehave or want to see how much they can get away with. Yet, that just pushes the question back a step. There could potentially be a myriad of reasons for this kind of thing. They could find the content of what we teach boring or even the way we do so.

[Tripp]

Upper class tend to live by a different rule book in standards of the unfortunate people on the lower classes. Down there, you're expected to fail. Schools persist that you'll fail and parents often don't help. That kind of asswipe negitivity, I'm not surprised kids want to push the rules a litte. I know I did.

Where as in upper class, I believe you're expected to succeed. Even the private schools can be quite enforcing of what's expected from you as an upper classman. (Not generalising here, or being personal)

It's a difficult subject for reasons I can't pathom. (Maybe due to my... Let's call it disorder) I can't understand. People need to be more understanding of each other. If teachers and parents constantly drill into the poor person even if you as an adult know you're joking. But start calling your child stupid, moron, babboon, swine, bastard, sexist chavanist, nit witt, bloody great big drip, fool... Yeah... I was an asshole at school. Yeah... I've grown up since then, became an adult. But I know if one teach laid a finger on me, that'd be the last thing he did. Because I'd of happy hit back. Problem for me back then once I was in a fight was getting me to stop. Whoo. Teachers had a real problem with me. I was called all those things and more, and I did what I did in rebelion. I hated (and ironically still do) to this day, authority figures, etc. I don't trust authority, I hate bosses, and I really don't have the right attitude to people with more authority. Because I don't respect them. (OH THE IRONY! MAKE IT STOP!!! xD)

I don't want to say my parents failed raising me... I genuinely believe they're good people. But I'd say my lack of respect and trust in authoirty is because of them two. They had no idea how to raise me, espically with the (>_>... "Disorder") I have. I resented them and my family. Constantly insulting me. Constantly putting me down. I honestly see why I was like I was when I was younger. Now as an adult, I learned how to not fight against the system. But to fight with it. Without breaking laws. The smartest thing I know. So I was a really naughty child in school. I got suspended more times than I can count on my fingers and toes. That's why I reckon I was like that. I mean I know it differs from person to person, but what my family did, what my teacher from year 2 did... All back from child hood.

My point is. Private schools must have a better behaviour record than public schools. Especially public schools in tough/rough areas.

I wanted to be an Theoretical Astrophyisist or an actual Astrophyisist when I was older. I even learned how to say the word and know what it means in Year 2. (7-8 years old I believe) And I was told this by a teacher. "Be realistic. You're as dumb as a post. You're probably going to end up being a bin man, or an alcholic drunk begging off the streets of Witney or Oxford city. Personally I have bets on the latter. Now just go sit down and get on with your work like a good little boy, don't want anymore of your work to go missing do you? So I can finally talk to your parents about how you do nothing all day." I went back to my seat, and cried... I didn't want the other kids to notice me crying... So I got my head stuck down and got on with my work, through my tears. I'll never forget those words... That was they day my faith in adults was crushed. The day I lost faith in authority figures. The day I started seeing this world for what it truely is. Insults that I had gotten all my life didn't help. Now I'm an adult I know they were joking with most of them. However I didn't take it as a joke, and infact at one point I believed what they say... I started responding, with a blank look on my face "Yes I am a complete retard." with a smile. I even started acting like a tit, just because it made my mum laugh. (Acting stupid, unintelligent.) And it worked. I was accepting what people told me, working with the system and it was liking me. Then I decided to stop demeaning and degrading myself like this and went back to old habbits. Now I try to ignore it. Okay. My speling isn't the most perfect in the world. But at least you understand (hopefully) what I am saying.

Now my final point is, if Corporal Punishment was in effect while I was at school... I don't think I'd be out today... I'd either of commited suicide (And I really hate that. I hate people who waste their lives like that, often for no reason. There are people to talk to by the way. People who CAN help. </off topic>) or locked up for murder. I certainly don't see myself as better behaved, and most likely worst. If I am not in jail or dead at that point, I'd probably try and be a criminal master mind. Or a law breaker of some description.

I stick by my arguement, Corporal Punishment is not the way for today...

[NeppyNepNep]

I'm in complete agreement. It's barberic. And now, studies are suddenly showing that children have to be punished the moment they break a rule. And what do you reckon they will advice as the way to do this?

[Syntax Outlaw]

I have to agree. Any parent who resorts to violence should not be a parent at all. I have managed to discipline my daughter (I am a step dad, who gets called Dad and respected as much) without using such tactics and I've had no issues.

[PsychoticMuse]

this is a lengthly topic that i have found has gleened quite a bit of responce time so thank you original poster! 8D

That being said, I do have my own two cents on the matter.

Is hitting a child wrong?

I know a number of people who will scream YES at the top of their lungs. Yet no one would be bothered to place that sentance in context. Rather what should be asked is;

Is hitting a child for everything they do that doesn't follow a set standard of rules wrong?

Of course it is, but what is the first thing a parent will do if their child is reaching for the stove, a knife block, sticking their finger towards an electric socket? Slap their hand away. Why? It's dangerous. It could hurt them.

So it's okay to hit a child when they're in danger, but it's not okay to hit a child when their actions could lead in a future where their own life being placed in danger because of a lacking in correction?

Don't get me wrong, i am in no way for corporal punishment; simply because like all things, it's taken too far. It then becomes abuse of a system to allow older stressed out adults to pick on the weakest link in the human hierarchy with out consequence. Which is the largest problem with that, in fact its the problem with most anything you can look it when pertaining to school systems; the system it self is inherently flawed. It's taking a great number of years for people to realize just how flawed that system is.

I'll use my self as an example. I was a horrible child according to my teachers in primary/Elementary school (ages 4-11) Why? Because I was always late to class in the morning, I rarely stayed awake and i held no wanting for a lot of what they taught me.

I was a slacker, who often daydreamed, never could string together a sentence corresponding to what was being taught, and i couldn't give a damn less.

The Emo one, and TrippyTrip both brought up good points, and that is WHY was i this way?

No one bothered to ask me why I was late to school, why i didn't brush my hair, Why i didn't care about my future, and why i was the last to leave. In fact most of the teachers didn't really care, but that is besides the point.

We don't have Corporal Punishment in my country, at least not any longer and haven't for a very long time (Since my mother was leaving highschool i do believe)

With this being said, would it have done them a lick of good. Nope.

Why are you late? -> Is that a hard question, apparently so as most teachers simply opt for stating the obvious, "your late" If we had the corporal punishment system in effect still it would be, "Your Late -thawp-"

At one time the logic of causing a minor-moderate amount of pain to discourage a type of behavior that is unwanted was founded, but over time it doesn't matter, the child stops caring over the light 'tap' and you'd have to resort to stronger methods. Or your students FEAR you.

Fear is not the highest regard of respect. Fear does one of two things to a person.

~Shuts them down (i.e. they cower in a corner, or become super quiet, rarely making eye contact with people ect.)

Or

~Snaps them out of their comfort zone (e.g: Someone who would normally never hit a person in their life suddenly tosses a desk at a teacher *guilty for other reasons*)

Society doesn't want any of these on a large scale. Someone who is shut down is not going to accomplish anything in life, they will not further the productivity of anything. Someone who is no longer in the comfort zone and FEARS being hit all the time so lashes out before they can be attacked further are arrested.

So now we have come to the conclusion that Corporal Punishment is WRONG

Why is it wrong?

-> Because the system isn't monitored, and more often then not gets abused.

-> Abuse of this system and use after it's usefulness has worn off (Slapping that child's hand away from the electric socket) results in extreme trauma to the victim of this flawed system that could and will place them in harms way in the future.

Some could argue that it teaches the children a philosophical way of life, your going to get beaten mentally before you can accomplish anything. But that is just a load of.... bollocks... i believe that applies here.

If a student is Always late (especially in the early years) ask them WHY they are late.

-> Children are smarter then you think. My niece who is three years old proves that to me over and over again on nearly a constant basis. (She can call me on skype with out her mother even realizing.)

-> There could be a number of reasons as to why they are late to class; and it's part of what teachers here are being taught to watch out for, part of the warning signs of abuse. Either by the parents in:

A) A physical manner

B)A Mental Manner

C)A Sexual Manner (yes here that is a completely different subject all together with harsher coniquences then beating the hell out of your kid)

D) A neglectful manner

It is also one of the top signs of bullying in school, on-line, or even by other teachers and falculty. if a child doesn't want to go somewhere it's generally because something happened to them they don't like. It could be simply because they don't get along with some kids in the class, or it could be a number of other issues including but not limited to.....

Bullying, Any number of abuse issues, Low self esteem because they don't get the attention they crave and/or need. Low attention span for subjects being taught in the manner they are taught (More on this in a moment) Ect.

There are a number of reasons why kids lash out, back talk, or even just don't pay attention, and NONE of them are reasons to hit the child. The only time violence IS EVER to be used is if the child is out of control (I.E. Ranting and raving where the Slap on the cheek method to snap them out of it would then apply) OR and MOST IMPORTANTLY In Grave-Serious Danger of harming themselves or another with out the knowledge of what they are doing. (The Electric socket example).

The main reason why Corporal Punishment was such a bit (forgive the pun here) Hit, from the early settlers right up to my mothers generation of learners is because of a simple ignorance of the 'Human mind' Not everyone learns the same; and it's taken us a very long time to realize this. The 1970's is when the idea of different learning types really became populair and people kinda took a step back and went.... wait a minute, this makes sense.

So, To devaite from the Corporal Punishment for a moment;

What is a Learning Style? Well Wikki tells us this......

Quote

Learning styles are various approaches or ways of learning. They involve Educating methods, particular to an individual, that are presumed to allow that individual to learn best. Most people prefer an identifiable method of interacting with, taking in, and processing Stumli or information

For those of you who are scratching their heads going... well i have never heard of this, no one has ever told me what kind of learner i am. Well lets see if this rings a few bells. There are a number of different models you can follow to figure out what category of learner you are:

David Kolb's
Honey and Mumford
Athony Gregorc's
Sudbury model of democratic Education
Flemings VAK/VARK modle <- This model here is the MOST widely used model of learning styles to date.

What is this model well it's simple.

There are Three (or four types depending on who to talk to) of learners in the world with an abundance of over lap.

They are:

1Visual learners
2 auditory learners
3Kinesthetic learners or tactile learners

This is where we find out where people stand. the schooling system doesn't cater to EVERY type of learning style, in fact it only caters to a small portion of the people in one or two predominant learning styles. They don't leave very much room for the Tactile learner, or the Kinesthetic learner, as they are the ACTION learning styles.

These types of styles do not deal well with book work, and thrive with the hands on learning. Irronically MOST people have either Tactile Traits or Kinesthetic traits

It's more often then not the students who 'Misbehaved where of these two types in some predominant nature. (E.G a Tactile-Visual learner is NOT the same as a Visual-Tactile learner)

Corporal punishment was for the times where people didn't know any better; if you find out early on WHY the child behaves that way, and Either deal with any issues that aren't school related, OR Figure out what the hell kind of learners you have in your class rooms. It's that simple.

If you have a class room with a bunch of Tactile/Auditory Learners, then a 'do with instruction class' would be great (Not printed instruction mind you....)

If you have visual learners <- these people will learn with a video of some kind and the chalk board, but expect the "why?" to crop up often

simple common sense is all that one needs to get by in the schooling system, generally the only ones with the common sense tend to be the children, Maybe people should listen to them more often-> As they shouldn't be seen and not herd.

We don't live in 1880 so why would we want to treat our children the same way?

Something to chew on.

[JamesRaynor]

Deterrent doesn't work because then people will instead learn to avoid being found out rather than actually trying to avoid the acts in question. Instead of teaching a child self-restraint and control you teach them that 'Getting caught is bad' rather than 'Doing the action is bad'. Which leads to them becoming sneakier and more subtle in their attempts while not curbing it what so ever.


Let's also not forget what some people do when it comes to corperal punishment:


(Warning: Graphic)

Spoiler

Edited by NeppyNepNep, 20 January 2012 - 11:15 hrs.
Edited to hide media due to graphic content. Was reported, but is relevant to the conversation.

[Anthro Slut]

I think that video is disgustingly graphic. However that is domestic violence, not Corporal Punishment. But imagine if your teachers when you were at school could do that to you...

Shuddering at the thought, this is worst case, it's not exactly what Corporal Punishment is, but you allow caning, and you will have one or two people who take liberties, like this asshole, and beat the fuck out of your children.

I think anyone who allows that to happen doesn't deserve children. Anyone who allows others to beat their own children like this doesn't deserve children... That video is powerful, and it's a real video, as I believe no acting is taking part in it. I think I first saw it ages ago.

[JamesRaynor]

Anthro Slut, on 20 January 2012 - 11:32 hrs, said:

I think that video is disgustingly graphic. However that is domestic violence, not Corporal Punishment. But imagine if your teachers when you were at school could do that to you...

Shuddering at the thought, this is worst case, it's not exactly what Corporal Punishment is, but you allow caning, and you will have one or two people who take liberties, like this asshole, and beat the fuck out of your children.

I think anyone who allows that to happen doesn't deserve children. Anyone who allows others to beat their own children like this doesn't deserve children... That video is powerful, and it's a real video, as I believe no acting is taking part in it. I think I first saw it ages ago.

Problem is that if you allow it, where does one draw the line and how does one stop this from occuring when the dicipliner is having a fit of rage? The second you allow it a little you allow the potentional for abuse.